RE: State of Audit Proposal ?

From: KRAMER,STEVEN (HP-USA,ex1) (steven_kramerat_private)
Date: Mon Jul 23 2001 - 06:17:55 PDT

  • Next message: David Wagner: "Re: State of Audit Proposal ?"

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Seth Arnold [mailto:sarnoldat_private]
     
    > Last, the two reasons I have heard for moving the MAC checks first are
    > thin by my standards: (a) a POSIX draft says to do MAC first 
    > (b) running
    > MAC first prevents the DAC decision variables from being 
    > known. I don't
    > think that we ought to sacrifice speed just for an old POSIX draft. I
    > also don't think we should be overly concerned with protecting the DAC
    > decision variables from the user: since the syscall can't return
    > different error messages based on MAC or DAC error, really only timing
    > attacks would glean this information; also, it is beginning to smell a
    > lot like an attempted defense against covert channels. Which, while an
    > honorable thing to do, starting with Linux may not be the 
    > right approach
    > for any application that truly requires keeping covert 
    > channels such as
    > DAC data closed.
    
    Why is it that MAC and DAC both must return the same error messages?
    I can easily envision a MAC policy that returns more errno values
    than the access errors.  Given that it is a possibility to have
    different MAC and DAC return codes, it becomes an issue of storage 
    channels, not only timing channels.
    
    In the past, I would have agreed that covert channels are a bit
    esoteric to worry about in real-life OSes.  But given the propensity
    of crackers to defeat so many existing protection mechanisms, isn't
    this something we should consider (at least bookmark it for later
    examination)?
    
    I'm also curious as to why you don't think Linux is an appropriate
    system for which to eliminate covert channels.
    
    --steve kramer
    
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