RE: [logs] why log transport is still important

From: tcleary2at_private
Date: Mon Dec 16 2002 - 17:38:06 PST

  • Next message: Klaus Moeller: "Re: [logs] absence of evidence..."

    Frank,
    
    >It's also clear that trying to standardise on even that one type of event 
    is
    >a fairly large piece of work that takes you far from home - including 
    such
    >issues as how to represent a user ID in various systems. Should that be a
    >string? A number (e.g. a UNIX UID)? An NT SID? Kerberos principal name? 
    All
    >of the above? Should a user ID be a part of all events, a standard header
    >item? What about things like delegation, impersonation and effective user
    >ids? If a session is created, should the ID of THAT be logged with 
    related
    >events, or should the analyzer have to infer it? What if there is no
    >session? And so on...
    
    Hhmmmm.....  I see where you're coming from.
    
    But I think this could be beyond our reach.
    
    A full definition of the form and content of a message which we expect to 
    become globally used would require Universal acceptance.
    
    Having worked with OSI products in the past I can tell you the Vendor 
    response to anything which threatens their ability to compete ( i.e. 
    anything which allows their competitors a level playing field ) leads to 
    excessive delay and agreement only on things which will not work in 
    practice. ( Remember FTAM? Ever get it to work right?  ;-)
    
    Would it be better for us to get agreement on a sane format and worry 
    about how to populate the fields for particular systems later?
    
    I think this is especially important since there are likely to be people 
    who would desperately like to avoid conforming to any standards not of 
    their own making....
    
    If we can agree a model which is:
    
    1) simple
    2) easy to relate to current usage
    3) provides a clear logical path for change
    4) is easy to analyse ( parses well? )
    5) capable of easy import to a database
    6) is "RFCable"/meets Internet standards - "rough consensus and running 
    code"
    
    Then I think we will have acheived enough - we just release it and let it 
    find a good home.
    
    To achieve nirvana and have everyone using the same values to uniformly 
    populate fields might be easier to do in Open Source and I agree we should 
    attempt to progress it,  but I think the more important task will be to 
    develop and publicise the common model.
    
    Yes, it will mean more work to get useable filters for non-conformant 
    platforms, but ultimately it is easier to do that than get buy-in from 
    owners of proprietary software.
    
    If we try to get buy-in,  the effort will get bogged down and deliver 
    nothing soon enough to prevent the field being taken by products with 
    marketing muscle.
    
    I feel strongly this would be bad for most people ( your viewpoint may 
    differ if you hold certain shares........    ;-)
    
    Regards,
    
    tom.
    
    __________________________________________________
    Security Consultant/Analyst
    CSC
    Ph: +61 8 9429 6478    Email: tcleary2at_private
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