RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland

From: webb1973 (webb1973@private)
Date: Thu Nov 22 2001 - 16:46:06 PST

  • Next message: Crispin Cowan: "Re: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland"

    Mr. Kohlenberg, you seem to have a strong resentment of government's role in
    your life. That's a joke, dude. Just kidding. But seriously, do you really
    believe asking questions is a precursor to dark happenings down the road? Do
    you really believe that there's some hidden agenda or plot to enslave
    Americans? That our government is becoming an evil empire? Come on, dude!
    Are we wrong to want to be safe from terrorists? And what's this "lashing
    out" business? We have always had law enforcement that we can count on to
    have good judgment. They do their jobs every day, without anyone noticing,
    and they make good decisions. We only hear about the bad instances, and not
    enough about the good. I feel perfectly safe with the FBI, Secret Service,
    INS and our other law enforcement agencies, state and Federal. We have very
    good people who work very hard to keep us safe. We also have constitutional
    safeguards in place that won't allow the kind of dark future you seem to
    fear. These thing can't be unilaterally changed in our Constitution. I am
    much more fearful of more 9-11 incidents that I am of the big, bad police
    state. It's a nasty world we live in, and having traveled many places in
    this world in the service of my country, I can assure you that we can all
    feel much safer here and have much more faith in our law enforcement and
    government bureaucracies that any where else In most of the world. One last
    thing. Despite what you might think, the non-citizens are not the easiest
    ones to find and watch right now. There are many, many people here who do
    not want to be found and who are living under false identities. We want to
    ask the questions so we can find the ones we truly do need to watch; so you
    and I and our families can be safe. This is not about abuse of
    constitutional rights. That's not happening by asking 5,000 people
    questions.
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime
    [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of Toby
    Kohlenberg
    Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:50 PM
    To: webb1973
    Cc: Crispin Cowan; crime@private
    Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    
    
    Yah, he was completely out of line. I'm sure in 5 years when people
    disappear in the night because they disagree with the government everyone
    will still feel that it is better to give up your freedom than force
    the police and politicians to think before they act and justify their need
    to violate our rights.
    
    After all, someone could be planning to sneak a nail clipper through
    an airport and stab a planeful of people in the throat with it! And
    really, there isn't any hidden agenda behind using military tribunals to
    try people believed to have some connection to a terrorist organization!
    
    The non-citizens are the easy ones to find and watch right now (and it can
    be done without violating every right we have). The ones you need to be
    scared of are the ones who are citizens and are smart and methodical and
    have both time and resources sufficient to move slowly and intentionally.
    
    And no amount of face-recognition or fingerprint biometrics at the airport
    are going to catch them, neither is being able to detain people
    indefinitely on suspicion of being connected to a terrorist organization.
    
    It saddens me to see how frequently we are seeing the "We must Do
    Something! This is Something, therefore we must Do It!" logic used. And
    the newest trend seems to be lashing out at people who question the
    governments current path (or point out the presidents many flaws) and
    calling them "unpatriotic"!
    
    t
    
    On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, webb1973 wrote:
    
    > Yeah. Way to go, Chief. I'm sure the families who lost loved ones on 9-11
    > will enthusiastically support your politically correct decision. And, if,
    > and when one or more of the 200 non-citizens does something to contribute
    to
    > more deaths from another terrorist activity, they'll fully understand your
    > decision not to ask questions because it was the politically correct thing
    > to do. Isn't America great!
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime
    > [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of
    > Crispin Cowan
    > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:29 AM
    > To: crime@private
    > Subject: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    >
    >
    > Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland for defending civil
    > liberties
    >
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/21/national/21PORT.html?ex=1007363873&ei=1&en
    > =978%20a71dca117098f
    >
    > Note: the above URL requires free "registration". You can access the
    > article using the user-ID/password combo of "cipherpunks/cipherpunks" or
    > "wirex/wirex".
    >
    > Crispin, card-carrying member of the EFF :-)
    >
    > --
    > Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    > Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com
    > Security Hardened Linux Distribution:       http://immunix.org
    > Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    



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