Mr. Kohlenberg, you seem to have a strong resentment of government's role in your life. That's a joke, dude. Just kidding. But seriously, do you really believe asking questions is a precursor to dark happenings down the road? Do you really believe that there's some hidden agenda or plot to enslave Americans? That our government is becoming an evil empire? Come on, dude! Are we wrong to want to be safe from terrorists? And what's this "lashing out" business? We have always had law enforcement that we can count on to have good judgment. They do their jobs every day, without anyone noticing, and they make good decisions. We only hear about the bad instances, and not enough about the good. I feel perfectly safe with the FBI, Secret Service, INS and our other law enforcement agencies, state and Federal. We have very good people who work very hard to keep us safe. We also have constitutional safeguards in place that won't allow the kind of dark future you seem to fear. These thing can't be unilaterally changed in our Constitution. I am much more fearful of more 9-11 incidents that I am of the big, bad police state. It's a nasty world we live in, and having traveled many places in this world in the service of my country, I can assure you that we can all feel much safer here and have much more faith in our law enforcement and government bureaucracies that any where else In most of the world. One last thing. Despite what you might think, the non-citizens are not the easiest ones to find and watch right now. There are many, many people here who do not want to be found and who are living under false identities. We want to ask the questions so we can find the ones we truly do need to watch; so you and I and our families can be safe. This is not about abuse of constitutional rights. That's not happening by asking 5,000 people questions. -----Original Message----- From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of Toby Kohlenberg Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:50 PM To: webb1973 Cc: Crispin Cowan; crime@private Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland Yah, he was completely out of line. I'm sure in 5 years when people disappear in the night because they disagree with the government everyone will still feel that it is better to give up your freedom than force the police and politicians to think before they act and justify their need to violate our rights. After all, someone could be planning to sneak a nail clipper through an airport and stab a planeful of people in the throat with it! And really, there isn't any hidden agenda behind using military tribunals to try people believed to have some connection to a terrorist organization! The non-citizens are the easy ones to find and watch right now (and it can be done without violating every right we have). The ones you need to be scared of are the ones who are citizens and are smart and methodical and have both time and resources sufficient to move slowly and intentionally. And no amount of face-recognition or fingerprint biometrics at the airport are going to catch them, neither is being able to detain people indefinitely on suspicion of being connected to a terrorist organization. It saddens me to see how frequently we are seeing the "We must Do Something! This is Something, therefore we must Do It!" logic used. And the newest trend seems to be lashing out at people who question the governments current path (or point out the presidents many flaws) and calling them "unpatriotic"! t On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, webb1973 wrote: > Yeah. Way to go, Chief. I'm sure the families who lost loved ones on 9-11 > will enthusiastically support your politically correct decision. And, if, > and when one or more of the 200 non-citizens does something to contribute to > more deaths from another terrorist activity, they'll fully understand your > decision not to ask questions because it was the politically correct thing > to do. Isn't America great! > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime > [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of > Crispin Cowan > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:29 AM > To: crime@private > Subject: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland > > > Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland for defending civil > liberties > http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/21/national/21PORT.html?ex=1007363873&ei=1&en > =978%20a71dca117098f > > Note: the above URL requires free "registration". You can access the > article using the user-ID/password combo of "cipherpunks/cipherpunks" or > "wirex/wirex". > > Crispin, card-carrying member of the EFF :-) > > -- > Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. > Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com > Security Hardened Linux Distribution: http://immunix.org > Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html > > > > >
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