RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland

From: webb1973 (webb1973@private)
Date: Thu Nov 22 2001 - 15:31:23 PST

  • Next message: webb1973: "RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland"

    Right. And the 5,000 who need to be questioned should be lining up with
    gratitute for being able to help or contribute in some small way. Answering
    questions is not a loss of liberty. It is, however, helpful in order to
    avoid more of what happened on 9-11. And, every person in this country,
    muslim or christian or whatever they have the liberty in this country to
    worship or not worship, should be happy to contribute. If non-citizens
    aren't happy here, or don't want to participate in what keeps us free to
    disagree and be free from being murdered at work, then let them leave or let
    them contribute to our government's attempt to make them as well as American
    citizens safe. If they are out of status with the INS, is it uneasonable to
    ask them to obey our laws like anyone else? Should they have the same rights
    as you or me as an American if they don't want to obey our laws? It's not
    too much to ask them to be law abiding like everyone else and to stay in
    status or leave. I fail to see what liberty is being taken away by asking a
    few questions of people who might, just might, be in a position to know
    something that would avert another 9-11. The fact that so many have been
    detained since 9-11, legally, I might add, and not without having violated
    some law of this nation, has contributed to the lack of new terror being
    perpetrated since 9-11. Those who are in law enforcement are aware of the
    extent of the problem, and that's what makes the position taken by Acting
    Police Chief Andrew Kirkland so surprising. Is he making a political
    statement? If so, this is not the time for it. Is interviewing 5,000 people
    more of an inconvenience than having to be searched at the airport check-in?
    I'm inconvenienced that way all the time. Should I be appalled at having my
    bags opened and rifled at airport check-in just because my privacy is being
    violated? Is that a violation of my constitutional rights? I don't think so.
    It's the price of democracy, and extraordinary times call for extraordinary
    viligence. So far, I have seen nothing that violates our Constitution. I,
    for one, do am not looking forward to back-pack nukes being within our
    borders and not knowing about it because some people who are in this country
    as our guests are displeased with the thought of answering a few questions.
    The questions are not designed to trick anyone into being detained, only to
    provide information that the person may not even realize he or she knows.
    They are simply for information that may avert another disaster. A lot of us
    have served our country in order to protect our constitutional right to have
    an opposing opinion and our right to disagree. Our Constitution also
    contains provisions to protect all of us from the threat of attack by
    foreign aggression. I believe that our Constitution can withstand asking
    questions to a few people who might be able to help. Questions, I might add,
    that do not violate any constitutional rights of the individuals being
    questioned. My question is, why aren't we seeing any of these 5,000 calling
    law enforcement and offering to help? To summarize, I agree with part of
    what you said Mr. Baird, but not with the other part. From this end, I
    respect your right to take any view you please.
    
    Mr. Duncan, I am simply without words to respond to your comments comparing
    losses in accidents to the 9-11 attacks, and I'm not even going to try. I
    will say, however, that I have not yet seen any constitutional foundations
    and principles being discarded. Maybe I'm missing something, but there's
    more privacy issues being violated on the Internet every day than anything
    remotely resembling a few questions to 5,000 people who we have allowed,
    repeat allowed, to enjoy the benefits of our democracy. Would your viewpoint
    on security change if a backpack nuke went off somewhere in the US?
    
    When I get too far afield, I go to this website for a reality check.
    http://attacked911.tripod.com/
    
    Real faces, real people, real death. Questions to 5,000 vs. more 9-11? I
    still vote for the questions. Anyway. Thanks for the opportunity to vent
    folks.
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime
    [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of BAIRD
    Dion E * DAS DOIT
    Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:50 PM
    To: 'webb1973'; Crispin Cowan; crime@private
    Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    
    
      Yeah, actually America is great.  I spent 12 years in the Army defending a
    constitution that gives liberalist whiners the right to their opinion, and
    the same with the uptight conservatives.  The deal is that everyone has the
    right to their opinion and you have the right not to like it.
      People in this country like to bitch about everything, but they don't
    really like to do anything about it.  What happened, happened.  Part of it
    is our fault as a country for getting comfortable and lazy.  We were lax on
    laws, we were lax on security, and we thought we were untouchable.  Now we
    know better.  So now, we're going to go to the complete opposite extreme and
    go overboard on security and take freedoms away that have been ours for 200+
    years?  Makes no sense to me, but I do have faith that eventually we will
    find a balance in there somewhere.
      This is my opinion and I respect to the death your right to agree or
    disagree with it, but it is because America is the greatest country on this
    planet that I have the right to have this opinion.  Thanks.
    
    Dion Baird
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: webb1973 [mailto:MSN/webb1973@private]
    Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:13 PM
    To: Crispin Cowan; crime@private
    Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    
    Yeah. Way to go, Chief. I'm sure the families who lost loved ones on 9-11
    will enthusiastically support your politically correct decision. And, if,
    and when one or more of the 200 non-citizens does something to contribute to
    more deaths from another terrorist activity, they'll fully understand your
    decision not to ask questions because it was the politically correct thing
    to do. Isn't America great!
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime
    [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of
    Crispin Cowan
    Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:29 AM
    To: crime@private
    Subject: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    
    
    Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland for defending civil
    liberties
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/21/national/21PORT.html?ex=1007363873&ei=1&en
    =978%20a71dca117098f
    
    Note: the above URL requires free "registration". You can access the
    article using the user-ID/password combo of "cipherpunks/cipherpunks" or
    "wirex/wirex".
    
    Crispin, card-carrying member of the EFF :-)
    
    --
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com
    Security Hardened Linux Distribution:       http://immunix.org
    Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html
    



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