Right. And the 5,000 who need to be questioned should be lining up with gratitute for being able to help or contribute in some small way. Answering questions is not a loss of liberty. It is, however, helpful in order to avoid more of what happened on 9-11. And, every person in this country, muslim or christian or whatever they have the liberty in this country to worship or not worship, should be happy to contribute. If non-citizens aren't happy here, or don't want to participate in what keeps us free to disagree and be free from being murdered at work, then let them leave or let them contribute to our government's attempt to make them as well as American citizens safe. If they are out of status with the INS, is it uneasonable to ask them to obey our laws like anyone else? Should they have the same rights as you or me as an American if they don't want to obey our laws? It's not too much to ask them to be law abiding like everyone else and to stay in status or leave. I fail to see what liberty is being taken away by asking a few questions of people who might, just might, be in a position to know something that would avert another 9-11. The fact that so many have been detained since 9-11, legally, I might add, and not without having violated some law of this nation, has contributed to the lack of new terror being perpetrated since 9-11. Those who are in law enforcement are aware of the extent of the problem, and that's what makes the position taken by Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland so surprising. Is he making a political statement? If so, this is not the time for it. Is interviewing 5,000 people more of an inconvenience than having to be searched at the airport check-in? I'm inconvenienced that way all the time. Should I be appalled at having my bags opened and rifled at airport check-in just because my privacy is being violated? Is that a violation of my constitutional rights? I don't think so. It's the price of democracy, and extraordinary times call for extraordinary viligence. So far, I have seen nothing that violates our Constitution. I, for one, do am not looking forward to back-pack nukes being within our borders and not knowing about it because some people who are in this country as our guests are displeased with the thought of answering a few questions. The questions are not designed to trick anyone into being detained, only to provide information that the person may not even realize he or she knows. They are simply for information that may avert another disaster. A lot of us have served our country in order to protect our constitutional right to have an opposing opinion and our right to disagree. Our Constitution also contains provisions to protect all of us from the threat of attack by foreign aggression. I believe that our Constitution can withstand asking questions to a few people who might be able to help. Questions, I might add, that do not violate any constitutional rights of the individuals being questioned. My question is, why aren't we seeing any of these 5,000 calling law enforcement and offering to help? To summarize, I agree with part of what you said Mr. Baird, but not with the other part. From this end, I respect your right to take any view you please. Mr. Duncan, I am simply without words to respond to your comments comparing losses in accidents to the 9-11 attacks, and I'm not even going to try. I will say, however, that I have not yet seen any constitutional foundations and principles being discarded. Maybe I'm missing something, but there's more privacy issues being violated on the Internet every day than anything remotely resembling a few questions to 5,000 people who we have allowed, repeat allowed, to enjoy the benefits of our democracy. Would your viewpoint on security change if a backpack nuke went off somewhere in the US? When I get too far afield, I go to this website for a reality check. http://attacked911.tripod.com/ Real faces, real people, real death. Questions to 5,000 vs. more 9-11? I still vote for the questions. Anyway. Thanks for the opportunity to vent folks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of BAIRD Dion E * DAS DOIT Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:50 PM To: 'webb1973'; Crispin Cowan; crime@private Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland Yeah, actually America is great. I spent 12 years in the Army defending a constitution that gives liberalist whiners the right to their opinion, and the same with the uptight conservatives. The deal is that everyone has the right to their opinion and you have the right not to like it. People in this country like to bitch about everything, but they don't really like to do anything about it. What happened, happened. Part of it is our fault as a country for getting comfortable and lazy. We were lax on laws, we were lax on security, and we thought we were untouchable. Now we know better. So now, we're going to go to the complete opposite extreme and go overboard on security and take freedoms away that have been ours for 200+ years? Makes no sense to me, but I do have faith that eventually we will find a balance in there somewhere. This is my opinion and I respect to the death your right to agree or disagree with it, but it is because America is the greatest country on this planet that I have the right to have this opinion. Thanks. Dion Baird -----Original Message----- From: webb1973 [mailto:MSN/webb1973@private] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:13 PM To: Crispin Cowan; crime@private Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland Yeah. Way to go, Chief. I'm sure the families who lost loved ones on 9-11 will enthusiastically support your politically correct decision. And, if, and when one or more of the 200 non-citizens does something to contribute to more deaths from another terrorist activity, they'll fully understand your decision not to ask questions because it was the politically correct thing to do. Isn't America great! -----Original Message----- From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of Crispin Cowan Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:29 AM To: crime@private Subject: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland for defending civil liberties http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/21/national/21PORT.html?ex=1007363873&ei=1&en =978%20a71dca117098f Note: the above URL requires free "registration". You can access the article using the user-ID/password combo of "cipherpunks/cipherpunks" or "wirex/wirex". Crispin, card-carrying member of the EFF :-) -- Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com Security Hardened Linux Distribution: http://immunix.org Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html
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