Again folks, don't get hung up on the "detained and held" issue. That is NOT what the INTERVIEWS of 5,000 people are all about. Local law enforcement is NOT being asked to hold or detain anyone. They are being asked to do what they normally do...ASK QUESTIONS that could aid in a criminal investigation of the murder of 4,00 - 5,000 people. An interview is just what the word means...INTERVIEW. Don't confuse interviews with arresting someone. This is not a custodial situation. If any person is in the US legally, he/she is afforded the same protections as any other citizen. Nothing since 9-11 has changed that. Due process is due process. It has NOT been abrogated in any way. On the other hand, if someone is in this country illegally, INS has the right to detain them and deport them. INS has always had that responsibility and duty. There is nothing different about this procedure since 9-11, except more illegals and more people out-of-status have been detained and are being processed for deportation. Or, if they have been found to have broken or are breaking the law by living under a false identity or using false documents, or providing false information to INS or any other law enforcement agency, then they are subject to criminal prosecution like any other citizen. And, they are afforded due process like any other citizen. There's nothing different in the procedures used by INS, FBI, or any other federal law enforcement agency since 9-11. I am mystified as to why anyone would have a problem with arresting and/or deporting someone who has been living here illegally and living under false pretenses and/or violating our laws? And that has nothing to do with interviewing the 5,000 people. How is that a violation of due process for that alien? All of us, as citizens, are subject to the same rules. If someone uses your identity, should that person be prosecuted or held accountable? If someone provides your company with false information that results in a loss to you, and that person happens to be in this country illegally, should that person be held accountable? What should happen to the person? Should he be treated any differently because he's a foreign national? And folks, believe it or not, there are foreign nationals who come here for criminal reasons, and who provide false documentation to INS and others in order to live here for purposes other than legitimate. This is not a perfect world people. Mr. Kolenberg mentioned that he'd been in Kosovo. I'd venture a guess that he could describe some very difficult things that he's seen that bears witness to what lies beyond our borders. Our servicemen and our law enforcement personnel do a difficult job with little or no public reward, but their sacrifices allow us to sit in our chairs and argue due process in the safety of our work place or home until something like 9-11 happens. Let's not forget that. Not every cop is a good guy, and not every foreign person coming into the US is good person. If we have high standards for our law enforcement, why should we not have high standards for people coming here as non-citizens? Folks, don't mistake interviews as a precursor to a police state. The interviews are NOT custodial and not intended to trick some innocent person into prison. -----Original Message----- From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of JACKSON Di M Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 10:01 AM To: 'Crispin Cowan' Cc: BAIRD Dion E * DAS DOIT; Toby Kohlenberg; webb1973; crime@private Subject: RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland Do we have any INS folks in this group .... My understanding is, and don't quote me, but any person who enters USA on a work permit, visa and/or green card are advised that they can be detained and/or held for no reason by the INS. This privilege does not apply to state or local law enforcements agency's which is why the Chief Kirkland is doing what he is doing. On the other hand these folks are holding visa/work permits/green card have been back grounded and investigated by the FBI, Interpol etc. These folks all have paper trails,( INS records, school records, taxes, etc,) so allot of the preliminary backgrounding can take place at FBI or INS quarters. An interview would be the last thing, which goes to prove again ... newspapers are more interested in selling papers. As for your law enforcement comments - I was just like you, till I did a ride-along. Quiet frankly. Law enforcement is a thankless job, they deal with all the undesirables and they are "dammed if they do and dammed if they don't". Everybody deserves credit and/or praise for doing there job. A Deputy I went on a ride-along with saved a boy at Multnomah Falls. He took a rope from his patrol car and scaled down a rock face to save this boys life. There was nothing in the newspaper about it ... pretty sad. -----Original Message----- From: Crispin Cowan [mailto:crispin@private] Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 12:28 AM To: webb1973 Cc: BAIRD Dion E * DAS DOIT; Toby Kohlenberg; webb1973; crime@private Subject: Re: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland webb1973 wrote: >I think I've seen some of the reading material you're talking about. Sorry, >but I just don't agree with most of it. ... That's why I'm >thankful every day that I have the opportunity to think, say, and believe >whatever I choose because I am a citizen of the US. Corny as that sounds, I >believe there's no other place better than right here, and even with all >it's faults, our system allows us rights and freedoms unlike anywhere else. > It is not about the US vs. Country X. It is about the US vs. its own ideals, like life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and equal treatment of all under the law. The US can be much better than it is, by adhering to its own ideals, which it is NOT doing. In particular, the current administration is engaging in a horrid power-grab under the guise of "extreme circumstances." Circumstances may be extreme, but the relationship between the circumstances and proposed responses is tenuous, at best. >It's also why I respect your view and believe in your right to express it, > On occasion, feel free to actually respond to any of the points that people have made, rather than resorting to patriotic jingoism. How in the Hell is it ok to round up and question people based on racial profiling? The "they are witnesses, not suspects" excuse is weak, at best. Crispin -- Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com Security Hardened Linux Distribution: http://immunix.org Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html
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