1) Read the thread all the way before replying! There have been a number of questions asked when the answers were given. 2) InfraGard is technically a separate entity, however nothing is being done with the InfraGard program at the local FBI office at the moment. There is a variety of reasons for this. 3) While there is no expectation of privacy on any mail list (unless otherwise stated, many of ours have them), and therefore anyone can create an archive of the list, there is not expectation of publication. i.e. if I post something to a fully public place (USENET), I expect it to be published. I think it is fair to expect that people are saving and/or archiving the CRIME list. Therefore I ask that no archives of the CRIME list be published without some form of protection (anonimizing/email munging), and that you announce those archives on the list periodically. I also would not expect anything that broadcast the list(s) to Google/Deja News. That would have disastrous effects on the amount of spam we would receive (we survive with very little at the moment). I ask that any such mail->news gateways be closed, and cancel messages sent out to the news server. There is high value on the CRIME list. One of the major factors is our openness, but another is our relative safe harbor. On Mon, 2002-04-22 at 08:07, George Heuston wrote: > The Infragard program followed CRIME by a number of years. CRIME was > already well established before InfraGard came to town to replicate what we > have in CRIME. InfraGard in Portland is in the process of considering > setting up its own separate membership and list. If they do, I'm not sure > that even they can keep anyone out there with access from archiving, > regardless of what's agreed to--or what the sanction would be for it--save > to eliminated the miscreant from the membership. As a courtesey to > assisting the InfraGard program's establishment in Portland, It was allowed > to be co-located the CRIME group. OTOH, I don't see where the archive itself > references InfraGard at all, or earmarks which posts are form InfraGard > members and which are not. Now that we know the archive is there, if > there's heartburn about it, it's creator may be willing to switch it off. > However, CRIME, since its inception, has been a public group and list. It > has over 350 subscribers. > > Geo > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lyle Leavitt > To: crime@private; Zot O'Connor; George Heuston > Sent: 4/22/02 1:52 AM > Subject: Re: CRIME Archive of list on the web > > Looking for a clue....... > > It was my understanding (which may have been incorrect) that CRIME > (crime@private) was to be a private moderated list and was limited > to those individuals who had submitted an Infragard "Non-Secure > Membership Application". That application contained the following > optional clause. > > "Does the InfraGard Applicant intend to protect from public disclosure > its relationship with InfraGard, and request that members of lnfraGard > protect from public disclosure the InfraGard Applicant's relationship > with lnfraGard to the full extent permitted by law?" > http://www.infragard.net/applic_requirements/ns_member_app.htm > > Am I mistaken about this list? > > According to Majordomo@private, CRIME is NOT a public list. > However, the content of INFO from Majordomo makes no reference to > InfraGard. > > Please, could Zot or George clear this up so we can move on. > > -Lyle > > > Crispin Cowan wrote: > > > I have no problem at all with the list archive. I don't believe that > any > > permission was needed to create an archive. Anyone who postd a message > > to this (or any similar) mailing list with any expectation of privacy > is > > clueless, and gets what they deserve. As Greg said, unless you > > personally know everyone on a list, treat it as if it is archived, > > because it very likely is. > > > > Crispin > > > > -- > > Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. > > Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com > > Security Hardened Linux Distribution: http://immunix.org > > Available for purchase: > http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html > -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com
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