RE: Password Hiding

From: Andrew van der Stock (avanderstock@b-sec.com)
Date: Wed Jul 30 2003 - 00:46:49 PDT

  • Next message: Larry Reedy: "RE: Password Hiding"

    Cryptographically, storing the secret and the key to the secret on the same
    box violates the basic idea of encrypting the information in the first
    place. Effectively, it is security through obscurity. 
    
    Saying that you still have a problem to solve, so please buy yourself a copy
    of Howard and LeBlanc's excellent book "Writing Secure Code", 2nd ed. It has
    exactly this problem covered off. 
    
    http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/books/index/5957.asp
    
    You don't say which flavor of Windows, but as you're doing security and you
    mention "service", I'm assuming that you mean something that is securable
    without a lot of work, i.e. not Win9x/ME or NT 4.0. 
    
    There are several methods. I like the DPAPI approach, but it is decryptable
    if they get LOCALSYSTEM or Admin access (or your service account for that
    matter), but fairly obscure to the average script kiddie. Plus, if they have
    that level of access, you're hosed anyway. 
    
    LSA secrets are nearly as good, but you shouldn't use them as you will need
    to run your service as LOCALSYSTEM, a security no-no (violates principle of
    least privilege). 
    
    And finally, there's the hand-rolled approach where you use an algorithm
    like RC4 or Blowfish out of Applied Crypto and try to store the key
    yourself. Don't. You (and me, and pretty much everyone) suck at
    cryptography, and you'll get it wrong. Guaranteed. 
    
    Using DPAPI (win2k and later):
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dncode/html
    /secure06112002.asp
    
    LSA Secrets:
    http://www.insecure.org/sploits/NT.LSA.secrets.html
    
    Cryptography, and why we all suck at it
    
    Go to Bruce's website, and read these papers. If everyone did this, I'd earn
    a lot less money. :)
    
    http://www.counterpane.com/whycrypto.html
    http://www.counterpane.com/pitfalls.html
    
    Thanks,
    Andrew
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: pablo gietz [mailto:pablo.gietzat_private] 
    Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2003 4:14 AM
    To: secprog
    Subject: Password Hiding
    
    Hi all
    This is my first post,
    What can I do to hide a password that is used to encrypt-decrypt a
    config.file?
    



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