Let me start by saying it is disheartening that most of you have had such unpleasant experiences working with recruiters. I think that when you are searching for a position, it is not only important that the recruiter knows what you have accomplished and what direction you want your career to go, but they should also be able to give you an accurate assessment of your skills, the marketplace and the fair market value of your skills. I would much rather my recruiter be able to accurately assess my skills, know the industry and the current market conditions, than how to configure a firewall, implement a host based IDS, or write UNIX exploits. It is the former that will assist you in finding the right opportunity for your future. In addition, some of the better technical recruiters were formerly technical professionals that decided that they wanted a different challenge. I invite any of the subscribers to this list to contact me personally, or any of the trained information security recruiters at L.J. Kushner and Associates L.L.C., the next time they want to explore the opportunities in the Information Security marketplace. I am sure that our recruitment process would change your opinion. Lee Kushner CEO - L.J. Kushner and Associates, L.L.C. (732)577-8100 Suite 302 36 West Main Street Freehold, NJ 07728 www.ljkushner.com -----Original Message----- From: Ry Jones [mailto:rjonesat_private] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:25 PM To: SECURITYJOBSat_private Subject: Re: Job question. All, Here is my input based on more contracts than I care to remember. > edelkindat_private wrote: > Some recruiting firms will offer you packaged computerized tests in your field Run away from anyone who busts out the skills test. As the writer said, you only have one or two skills you want to present anyways. Another bad thing about skills tests is this: if you took a class in COBOL in college and you put a 1 down for COBOL, what do you do when they offer you a submission in a COBOL shop? I only list the skills I want to work with. If I don't want to do it again I drop it. I used to paint houses and hang tapes, you don't see "computer operator" or "industrial coatings applications" on my resume. That I was container and high steel certified for painting matters 0 today. > If you really must go through a headhunter despite all of this, here are some > things to keep in mind: > 1. Be very careful with your resume. This is important. On my resume it says "not to be submitted without the express permission of Ry Jones". I only hand it out when there is a submittal for it. Handing your resume out to everyone is counter productive. ANother reason to resrict access to your resume is so that people don't archive old ones. I can't count the number of times some recruiter submitted a three year old resume they had laying around. I get a call about some bogus job in Renton... cha, as if. > 3. Many people who go to headhunters will be less knowledgeable than you, but > will lie on their resume. They will probably end up getting the jobs that you > are qualified for. You can live with it, or you can lie on your resume too. If your interviewer is worth anything they'll pop a liar like a big zit. I have some standard interview questions for UNIX; one is, what's your favorite editor? If it's vi, I'll ask a string of progressively harder questions to find out how strong they are. I've had people who said they were VI gods not be able to search and replace. Really. I call these people "nice guys". If the only thing I can say about you is that you're a nice guy, your resume goes in the hall of shame. > 4. Keep your references handy. If a headhunter agrees to send your resume to a > client, they will not then wait around for you to send them your references if > they have others waiting as well. No. Do not hand out references as if they were candy. All the recruiter wants to do is call your references up and bug them about getting a new job. If you're in the final stages of interviewing for a job you want, give a list directly to the firm. Never, ever give references to a recruiting firm. > 5. Headhunters generally like certifications -- any of them. If you have an > MCSE, you will be much better qualified for a position relating to security or > unix, as far as many headhunters are concerned. I look at certs as a bogometer. The more certs, the more bogus you are. If you have time to go get certs, what are you doing with your life? The only exception I make is if they were employed by the company. When I was at MSFT, you could earn MS certs for essentially free. In that case, why not? Same for Sun and Java certs. It's free. > I'm sure (i hope) there are some headhunters who know their elbows from... > [...] but (no offense to headhunters) most do not. If recruiters knew much about tech, why would they be recruiters? The whole point of a resume is to get a recruiter to call you and submit you to an employer. The whole point of the recruiter is to filter out resumes as quickly as possible and get the ones they can make money on to the clients who need them. You can't expect a recruiter to be tech savvy. Ry
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Apr 13 2001 - 15:26:20 PDT