Sean et al, I'm new to the security side of IT, having just transferred to my present position about a month ago. Although the military is not exactly a good analogy for salary comparison, I would like to put my two cents in if I may. As a technician or manager, I would expect to receive fair compensation when compared to others in the region with similar education and experience (in the same industry), not to mention demand it within my own company. I would say that today's job market is not nearly as juicy as it was a couple of years ago, when if you could spell "IT" you were virtually guaranteed a $50K a year job (minimum). Today there are many "good" IT professionals who are looking for work. It's my firm belief that the technology boom of the 1990's allowed many to call themselves "IT" people, when in fact they really hadn't a clue as to what they were doing and were merely riding on the coat tails of those who did. What that resulted in was your coworker with an AA in Interior Design being in charge because those with technical savvy and enough guts tried creating/working for new start-ups. That said, I'd also like to point out that there's a lot to be said for longevity, loyalty, and the stick-to-it-iveness that has allowed people to advance. The fact that your boss has an AA in an unrelated discipline is really immaterial. They have the position. The fact that new team member has a bachelors degree and earns $7K more than you should motivate you to increase your educational level. As a prior enlisted AF member and currently an officer, it always bothers me when someone who has less rank whines about not making as much money as someone else. Here's a newsflash: That person has probably worked their rear ends off to get to where they are, and whether they deserve it or not they've attained a certain level of responsibility. Those who are complaining should look inside, decide whether getting that pay raise is worth the extra time to educate themselves or not (either with an Associates, Bachelors, or Masters degree or with a technical certification). I'm a firm believer in setting goals, then charting a course to attain them. Sean, I wasn't trying to create any kind of a bad vibe here, just weighing in with my opinion. I live by what I've said in this message. I was in a non-IT field for a number of years in the AF, then had the opportunity to change career fields. Knowing that I needed to continue my education was a result of planning where I wanted to be in 2, 5, and 10 years. I didn't want to be a programmer my whole life, because quite frankly unless you develop the "killer app", you're going to stagnate in salary somewhere in time. If you want to move into management, get the education that's desired by employers. I was once told by someone I respected a great deal "Those who know how will always work for those who know why." I truly believe that is true. ~Freddie David C. Kruger, 1st Lt, USAF Chief, Vulnerability Assessment Branch -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Gullett [mailto:dougg03at_private] Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:58 PM To: sean dankers; securityjobsat_private Subject: RE: Am I getting the wrong end of the stick????? I would say that taking a job at ANY company that does not have a formal evaluation process is a mistake. I was unemployed for a year and finally took a job with a small 50 employee company. The recruiter told me that they had an evaluation process, but I actually asked to speak with a number of the employee's and I actually asked them the question of how often they had gotten reviews, and if raises were a part of the review process for exceptional reviews. I also asked them how much of a resource the HR department was to them and other employee's. After lengthy negotiations where I gave a lot of ground and they gave a little...I took the job for less than I was worth, because I was confident that I would solidify my skills with experience on the job and get more "formal" (title oriented) security experience. I also knew that I had a decent chance of getting a raise at review time. I just got my review and was given a 20% increase. I am still underpaid, but one more year and another possibility of a raise like that and I will be in fair market range. Then I will have the number of years on my resume to get the upper hand in interviews, and when a person changes jobs, they should shoot for around a 20% increase. I have a college degree and am planning on starting my Masters Degree next year. I also have a number of Certifications, because I know consulting companies like that kind of thing...so do many clients. One other thing. Don't think about what others are making. If you are not making that, then it is your responsibility to find the reason and fix it (and I am not talking about in that company). You are the owner of the business that is "you"! You are your own sales force, marketing agent, trainer, accountant and CEO. If pay is important to your job satisfaction, then make sure you know how to make it happen in your chosen field. It may take time, study, money, risk, and job changes...but you can make it happen. -----Original Message----- From: sean dankers [mailto:seandankersat_private] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 10:45 AM To: securityjobsat_private Subject: Am I getting the wrong end of the stick????? I work as a govt contractor in DC and have been with my present company for a year now. Previously I was in the Armed Forces for 9 years to give you a little background. Anyways, I went in for a review and was told that they do not give formal reviews because they have less than 50 employees. My supervisor then stated that all was to receive was a Cost-of-Living adjustment. I am currently the lowest paid IA analyst on the so-called team. I say so-called because the team lead is one with no IT experience and a associates from 1974 in Interior Design and gets a little more than 7k than I do. She has been here only a few months because I was the only one working on a 3 person contract. The newest team member is fresh out of the Army working on his Masters and gets 15k more than I do. I have worked with the client to help my company get a new contract and have helped them get another federal contract during my time here. Should I have received more than a COL raise for being a excellent employee and surpassing my initial expectations?????? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
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